John 2:4 KJB - “Jesus saith unto her, Woman, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE? mine hour has not yet come.”
And how the mind of a self appointed Bible critic works.
At one of the Facebook forums a man named Freddy C., who fancies himself to be quite the scholar, harshly criticizes how the King James Bible has translated John 2:4.
He tells us: “The KJV on this verse is as much of an interpretive translation (since the KJV translators frequently do this) as most of the modern versions. They are not word-for-word translations of this verse.
The text in consideration is as follows:
τι εμοι και σοι
A word-for-word translation would be:
What (τι) to Me (εμοι) and (και) to you (σοι)
In isolation from the context, this saying is not quite clear. So the KJV translators engaged in interpretation by adding the words "have...to do with..." and removing the Greek word "και" from being translated.
Now obviously, with Greek phrases as obscure as the one above, interpretation is often needed to make sense of what is being said. But not to this extent, to the point of not translating a Greek word such as "και", which is important in recognizing that Jesus and Mary are not in opposition to each other, as the KJV and most modern versions have unfortunately done.
In fact, the surrounding context of John 2:4 makes clear that the opposition is not between Jesus and Mary, but rather between the "What" and "to Me and to You".
From this understanding, the English translations that are most faithful to a word-for-word approach while being intelligible would be the following:
NRSV "what concern is that to me and to you"
NASB 1995 "what does that have to do with us"
EHV, WMB, WEB "what does that have to do with you and me"
TLV "what does this have to do with you and me"
EOB "what [is that] to you and me"
Amplified Bible "what is that to you and to me"
LSV "What [is that] to Me and to you"
Douay-Rheims "what is that to me and to thee"
Lamsa Bible "what is it to me and to you"
The KJV fails to accurately translate the Textus Receptus in John 2:4. But of course you wouldn't care what the Word of God says because your idol is the KJV.”
My Response -
Freddy C. has NO complete and inerrant Bible in any language he can show us that he really thinks is the 100% true words of God. He is his own authority.
When I told him he is a version rummaging Bible agnostic with NO inerrant bible in any language to show us, and asked him to at least show me what he thinks is the best bible out there in Bible Babble Buffet Land, he responded with this mind numbing answer -
Freddy says: “I was very clear. It is all the surviving Greek and Hebrew manuscripts both known and unknown. It is all of the Greek and Hebrew editions collated by scholars and experts, ie. The Biblia Hebraica Kittel/Stuttgartensia/Quinta, The Critical Text, Byzantine Text, Majority Text, Family 35 Text, and all editions of Textus Receptus. All of these put together, despite their differences, are the preserved words of God. It is not one English translation as KJVOs falsely claim. So I repeat, continue to believe in a false and unbiblical claim of Elizabethan KJV English reinspiration, against reality and all available facts."
My Response to this man then was -
So, Freddy, your "preserved words of God" are like Webster's Complete Unabridged Dictionary - they are all in there somewhere, mixed up with thousands of words that are not the right ones, and all out of order, but, Hey, they're in there somewhere."
You really nailed it down for us, Freddy. I'm sure anybody who takes your word for it will greatly appreciate your telling them where they can find God's words today.
IF other Bible translators are using what Freddy recommends - “all the surviving Greek and Hebrew manuscripts both known and unknown. It is all of the Greek and Hebrew editions collated by scholars and experts, ie. The Biblia Hebraica Kittel/Stuttgartensia/Quinta, The Critical Text, Byzantine Text, Majority Text, Family 35 Text, and all editions of Textus Receptus.” - all which differ from each other by literally thousands of words, have any of them used all these different sources to come up with a Bible that Freddy thinks are the inerrant words of God? Of course not.
The man is just another self-appointed authority with NO inerrant Bible in any language he can show us.
Freddy C. proves that he is his own authority when he tells us: "Now obviously, with Greek phrases as obscure as the one above, interpretation is often needed to make sense of what is being said. But not to this extent, to the point of not translating a Greek word such as "και", which is important in recognizing that Jesus and Mary are not in opposition to each other, as the KJV and most modern versions have unfortunately done."
Does Freddy have any Bible he can show us that sometimes does not translate the word "kai" (and)? Of course not. And even in the ones he sorta likes, they ALL add several words to this text in John 2:4 that are NOT found in any Greek manuscript, but that doesn't seem to faze our resident scholar in the least as much as not translating the word kai.
Not even the NASB, ESV, NIV, NET, NKJV, Holman Standard, ISV, Legacy Standard translated the word kai in this verse. Go figure. But Freddy only sees a mistake here in the KJB. Can you say the word "hypocrite"?
At times ALL Bible versions have to paraphrase certain Greek expressions simply because a strictly literal transliteration would not make any sense. "What to me and you?" makes no sense at all when it stands by itself. It is not even a complete sentence, either in Greek or in English; there is no verb.
It seems the only real emphasis Freddy has is his desire to discredit the King James Bible any way he can and to set himself up as some kind of authority.
John 2:4 KJB - "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I do so with thee? mine hour has not yet come." This makes perfect sense in the context (contrary to what Freddy may think).
The meaning of the phrase is simply this, as John Gill explains in his Bible commentary - “that though, as man, and a son of hers, he had been subject to her, in which he had set an example of obedience to parents; yet, as God, he had a Father in heaven, whose business he came to do; and in that, and in his office, as Mediator, she had nothing to do with him; nor was he to be directed by her in that work; or to be told, or the least hint given when a miracle should be wrought, by him in confirmation of his mission and doctrine.”
Other Bible translators that agree with the sense found in the KJB are the following -
The ASV 1901 - And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
The English Revised Version 1881, Tyndale 1524, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587 - Iesus saide vnto her, Woman, what haue I to doe with thee? mine houre is not yet come.
Darby's Translation 1890, and Beza's 1599 translation of the New Testament - "Woman, what I have to doe with thee?", the Tomson New Testament 2002, God's First Truth, Disciples' Literal New Testament 2011, and the Jubilee Bible 2010, New Matthew Bible 2016 and the Legacy Standard Bible 2021 - Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what do I have to do with you? My hour has not yet come.”
“What have I to do with thee?”
The same Greek construction - τι εμοι και σοι - is found in the Greek translation of the Old Testament in Judges 11:12 and in 2 Samuel 16:10.
In Judges 11:12 we read: “And Jephthah sent messengers unto the king of the children of Ammon, saying, WHAT HAST THOU TO DO WITH ME, that thou art come against me to fight in my land?”
Here the Greek says: “τι εμοι και σοι“ and the English translation of Brenton’s LXX is “What have I to do with thee?”
Judges 11:12 - Καὶ ἀπέστειλεν ᾿Ιεφθάε ἀγγέλους πρὸς βασιλέα υἱῶν ᾿Αμμὼν λέγων· τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί, ὅτι ἦλθες πρός με τοῦ παρατάξασθαι ἐν τῇ γῇ μου;
And in 2 Samuel 16:10 we read: “And the king said, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH YOU, ye sons of Zeruiah?” And the Greek Septuagint has this as - τί ἐμοὶ καὶ ὑμῖν,
And in Matthew 8:29 we have a similar expression where we read of the devils who cry out to Jesus saying “WHAT HAVE WE TO DO WITH THEE, Jesus, thou Son of God?” And the Greek construction is - και ιδου εκραξαν λεγοντες τι ημιν και σοι ιησου υιε του θεου
Mark 5:7 - “And cried with a loud voice, and said, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
And the Greek reads - και κραξας φωνη μεγαλη ειπεν τι εμοι και σοι ιησου υιε του θεου του υψιστου ορκιζω σε τον θεον μη με βασανισης
And again in Luke 8:28 the man possessed by devils cries out “WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? And the Greek has - τι εμοι και σοι ιησου υιε του θεου του υψιστου
The King James Bible is right again, as always. Get used to it.
All of grace, believing the Book - the King James Holy Bible.
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